Bonus Episode - $elling Building$ with Bob Knakal and Rod Santomassimo

Summary

In this episode, Drey and Tay host Bob Knakal and Rod Santomassimo, who share insights on their long-standing professional relationship, the importance of coaching in real estate, and the discipline required to succeed. They discuss their new book, $elling Building$, which emphasizes maximizing profits for brokers and investors. The conversation also touches on the evolving landscape of real estate, the impact of technology, and the necessity of maintaining authentic relationships in a digital age. 

Bob and Rod also underscore the importance of networking and building relationships in the real estate industry. They emphasize the need for personal interactions over technology, the significance of market presence, and the role of KPIs in driving success. The discussion also covers hiring practices focused on culture and fit, and they share insights on their ongoing partnership and future plans, culminating in the announcement of their upcoming book launch.

Details on $elling Building$: available for pre-order now on Amazon, book launch party in NYC on May 20! 

Takeaways

• Coaching adds significant value to a broker's career.
• Discipline is crucial for success in real estate.
• Knowing something doesn't guarantee action; implementation is key.
• The brokerage business is simple but requires consistent effort.
• The new generation of brokers will need to adapt to AI tools.
• Social interaction will remain essential despite technological advancements.
• Face-to-face interaction is irreplaceable.
• KPIs are essential for team performance.
• Granular data can provide a competitive edge.
• Building relationships requires common interests.
• Authenticity in communication is crucial.
• Focus on real life, not just real estate.
• Continuous innovation is key to staying relevant.

Chapters

00:00 The Origins of a "Bromance"
02:58 The Value of Coaching in Real Estate
06:00 Discipline and the Art of Doing
09:02 The Journey of $elling Building$
12:11 Navigating Economic Changes in Real Estate
18:07 The Future of Real Estate and Technology
24:38 Building Relationships Through Networking
27:41 The Importance of Market Presence
31:03 Hiring for Culture and Fit
33:31 Looking Ahead: Future of the Partnership
36:50 Book Launch and Final Thoughts

Transcript

Drey Campbell (00:01.731)
Alright everybody, welcome to the CRE Education podcast. Today we get to revisit with the infamous Bob Nackel and Rob Santamassimo. And we get to talk about relationships and I would say persistence and a new book that's coming out and just multiple exciting topics. So we're blessed to have you guys on the show and we're blessed to be able to have gotten to know you guys over the last few years.

We look forward to kind of diving in.

Bob Knakal (00:35.087)
Well, Dre and

Rod Santomassimo (00:35.566)
Thanks for having us.

Drey Campbell (00:39.243)
I think Taylor and I were both talking. So even before we jump in, can you guys just kind of talk about when your bromance started?

Tayler Tibbitts (00:39.637)
Yeah, you bet.

Rod Santomassimo (00:50.024)
Bob, you wanna take that one?

Bob Knakal (00:50.075)
Yeah, I'll take that one, sure. I guess this was 2011, 2010, something like that. I get a call from this guy, the very long last name, and he's like, hey, I'm writing a book about top brokers in North America called Brokers Who Dominate.

Rod Santomassimo (01:01.422)
11.

Bob Knakal (01:12.899)
A lot of people said, I have to have you in the book. Would you be interested? So, okay, what broker in their right mind is gonna say, no, I'm not interested in being featured in a book with that title? So, of course I agreed and got to have a couple of phone sessions with Rod talking about what I do, how I do it, et cetera, et cetera.

And I got around to ask him about him. said, so how many books have you written? What kind of books do you write? And he's like, well, actually, I don't write books. This is my first book. I'm a broker coach. And I said, broker coach? What the heck is a broker coach? I didn't know a broker coach even existed. And I got to thinking about it. And I said, well, gee, Michael Jordan has a coach, and Tiger Woods has a coach, and Olympic athletes have coaches.

Tayler Tibbitts (01:46.749)
Hahaha

Bob Knakal (02:04.571)
What the heck, let me give this a try. And that was the start of what has become a great relationship. Rod is not only my broker coach, but I consider him one of my best friends. And we talk every week and have for, I guess going on 14 years now. And it's been a great thing.

Rod Santomassimo (02:27.566)
Yeah, I think it has been a great ride and it will continue to be. I've learned as much from Bob, obviously, as we all have, right, about the commercial real estate side as he has from me from an increasing income side. So it's been a fantastic professional relationship, but more importantly and lately, it's more personal than professional lately. And that's great. It's just what it is.

Drey Campbell (02:53.345)
Rod, did you have to cold call Bob multiple times?

Rod Santomassimo (02:57.376)
No. Again, think about it. And this is a good lesson for everybody. If you bring value, they will talk to you. I'm saying, Bob, I want to highlight you in a book that I had no idea if it would sell. Yes, it's now the best selling commercial state brokers book of all time. It sells copies every single day for the last 13 years. But I give him values. There no cold calling.

Tayler Tibbitts (02:58.913)
Hahaha

Tayler Tibbitts (03:21.205)
That's excellent. One question Dre and I had, Bob and Rod, how do you two work together? You're both independently, you know, very successful in your own right. Bob, how does somebody like you with all the experience that you've had accept coaching and how does that interaction look like?

Drey Campbell (03:21.357)
Yeah, that's great.

Bob Knakal (03:38.619)
it's great. We talk every Saturday morning for an hour and I get tremendous benefits out of it. Number one, know, nobody in this business knows everything.

And I think if there's anybody that's close to knowing everything, it's probably Rod, because he and his coaching network are talking to so many people across North America every day. And so I always said, if there's some kid in Toledo, Ohio, who comes up with a better way of doing something in our business, I want to know about it as soon as possible.

And so working with Rod puts me in a position to become aware of that sooner than later. And then there's always fundamental things we need to get back to. You know, I always say the three things that really separate the very top brokers from the rest are expertise, passion, and the ability to use discipline well. And regardless of how well you use discipline, we all could be a little more disciplined.

And Rod always kind of keeps me back on track when I get off track a little bit and I found that to be extraordinarily helpful over the years.

Rod Santomassimo (04:52.27)
Yeah, from my perspective, look, when Bob said, hey Rod, why don't you come up and see what I do, see if you can help me. Guys, I went to my wife, because this is 13 years ago, I went to my wife and said, oh shit, what the hell am gonna do? This is one of the top brokers in the world. How can I help him? That was my mindset, of course. But then I did go up and I spent several days in his office just watching. And like Bob said, we all don't know what we don't know.

Drey Campbell (04:55.699)
the

Tayler Tibbitts (05:03.949)
Yeah

Rod Santomassimo (05:18.774)
And so I say, hey, Bob, I think we had some opportunity to really grow your business. How about we do this, this and this? And we've given the numbers publicly before how much money he was making, which is more than any brokerage firm at the time, frankly, most boutique brokerage firms. And then he tripled his income just putting together just a plan of action to do different things. I think that was the, got it. But what I learned just like Bob, Bob knows more about real estate than...

I will ever know. And most of my clients combined will ever know. So I absorb the commercial real estate side from him, right? And then he absorbs the practices and business building from me. And together, it's been synergistic and it's worked out great.

Drey Campbell (06:00.503)
That truly sounds like a value share back and forth, which tends to be an equitable relationship, right? That's how relationships stay for the long term and grow.

Rod Santomassimo (06:10.104)
Correct.

Drey Campbell (06:12.003)
So Bob, kind of, said something interesting. You want to know what the guy in Toledo is doing. because you want to, you want to learn and get better, right? And you've developed this territory mapping system you've created to help your brokerage ticket to the next level. and it's working well and it has worked well. And you talk about this component of discipline. So why do you think other people who know about this system haven't adopted it?

Bob Knakal (06:39.641)
Well, Rod wrote a book that specifically addresses it. And it's because knowing isn't doing. you know, when I talk about discipline, I always say, you know, it's how you use discipline and how do you use discipline? Can you use discipline? Well, not have discipline. Every single human being has the same access to the same exact amount of discipline. We all just choose to use it differently.

Drey Campbell (06:43.203)
.

Bob Knakal (07:09.173)
And just because you know something doesn't mean you're actually gonna do it. There are plenty of folks who attend conferences and learn tips and things and they'll write things down and they never look at those notes again. And it's the secret and the magic is in the doing, not in the knowing. And so it's one thing to know.

It's another thing to do and put these things into practice. And that's what Rod helps me do is put these things into practice. And I always say the brokerage business is a very, very simple business. It's just really hard. And the hard part is just doing things that can be relatively mundane, but doing them over and over and over again. I always use the illustration of a stonecutter pounding the rock.

and you have to keep pounding the rock and you cut in the stone cutter comes into the shop in the morning, sits in front of this giant piece of stone and wax the thing, you know, 50 times, 75 times, 99 times whacking the rock, nothing has happened. 100th blow, boom, the rock splits in half. And to the casual observer, they'll look at that and say, well, that 100th one must have been different. It must have been harder or a different hammer or a different angle.

And the stonecutter knows that that's not it at all. That it's the same everything. It's just the fact that you did it 99 times before made that hundredth one work. And in the same way, to do all the fundamental basic things we have to do in our business. Making your calls, doing your email blasts, sending out your texts, doing your networking, creating content, speaking in public, being on social media, all the fundamental things we need to do for market presence. It's a pain in the neck.

Nobody likes doing it. You have to do it. But if you have the discipline, if you can use discipline well to keep doing it day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year, eventually the rock's gonna split in half. So we always say, you know, keep pounding the rock, because if you're doing fundamentally correct things, eventually that rock will split in half for you. And so I find it extraordinarily helpful to have somebody looking over my shoulder every week.

Bob Knakal (09:29.999)
to say, hey BK, are you doing this? Did you do that? Did you follow up on this? You had this idea, did you actually implement it? How are you moving forward on this? We talked about doing X, Y, and Z, did you do it? And there are so many ways to get off on tangents in our business. Rod calls it the shiny object syndrome. you have to avoid having shiny object syndrome. You have to use no.

very well, it's almost more important the things you say no to than the things you say yes to. In fact, Bill Urie, a Harvard professor, wrote a great book called The Power of a Positive No. And we subscribe to that. In fact, one of my goals that Rod has set for me is I have to say no to three big things every week. And it's hard for me to do that, but it has enabled me to focus on the things that are most important. Because the reality is that

80 % of our money comes from 20 % of the things that we do. And so you have to, with those other things that aren't producing a lot of our revenue, you have to either delegate them or not do them at all. And it's really, really helpful to have a coach in your corner who keeps you focused, keeps you very, very aware of the things that...

are really the most productive things that you're doing. And it's just been unbelievable. I always tell people, I'll never retire from this business. And as long as Rod is willing to coach me, I'll have him coach me because it's really been extraordinarily beneficial for my career.

Rod Santomassimo (11:13.622)
Yeah, and to your point, the original, I agree, I think BK said, look, BK, if you follow BK, if you don't follow BK, you really need to follow BK on social media. You do. He shares everything. And I think this is a problem. It's a restriction that we most mindset restriction. Most of us refuse to share something fearful of the competitor will pick it up or give stuff away for free. Right. It took me a long time to learn that lesson, guys. It did. I charged for everything for everything. I did.

And I still charge, absolutely. But now we're giving away more of our stuff for free because knowing isn't doing, right? As we say at Massimo, information is just an exchange. I could tell you what to do. But it's the implementation that creates the transformation. And then you see that. And Bob, of all our clients, we have thousands of clients, we're very fortunate over the years. And any given day we have 500 more broker clients across the world working with us.

He implements, he's a doer. And it's the doers that create the difference that generates the wealth in commercial real estate. So you gotta be a doer. It's that simple.

Tayler Tibbitts (12:23.231)
I love it. It's clear that you all have a great track record working together and now you've come together on this book and you've titled it Selling Buildings, which is a bold name. How did you come up with that name and what do you feel like the difference is between selling a building versus just listing a building, right?

Drey Campbell (12:35.209)
Thank

Rod Santomassimo (12:42.23)
Yeah, so let me take that one first and Bob jump on that. So selling buildings was the subtitle is maximizing prices for investors and profits for brokers, obviously, in commercial real estate. So look, Bob wanted to write a book and then I had the honor saying, hey, let's write a book together. How lucky am I? This is back to when I asked Bob to be in my book, right? So it went full circle. So what we did was we said,

What are the key lessons for investors and brokers? Things they need to know to maximize their profits and their prices. Now, Brokers Who Dominate, I know you both read it, it wasn't a workbook like Knowing Isn't Doing. Knowing Isn't Doing is this, when do sales do these five things? Marketing do these five things? Brokers Who Dominate, Teenage Bill To Dominate, Dominators, all the books that Bob's been in, those are all stories. And because the stories resonate with people and get better lessons and impact.

that's what you got to do. That's how this works. So we took a journey through Bob's career from the time he was growing up in New Jersey and going to Wharton School of Business, all the through the development of the Map Room, those 40 years and looking at key deals and key trends and thinking about all the cycles we had during those 40 years that he's been brokering and I've been involved in brokerage. And we said, look, let's create a story using Bob's journey as a thread.

of sharing lessons for investors and brokers to how to actually sell buildings and maximize a win-win situation for everyone. So that's why we did it.

Bob Knakal (14:19.829)
And then my favorite part of the book was going back and remembering those key inflection points that happened where you, you know, we're all met with forks in the road and our destiny is determined based upon whether we go left or we go right.

And there were several very key inflection points in my career that I talk about. also I feel like I've been the beneficiary of a lot of luck. And I believe that the harder you work, the luckier you get. But definitely luck has played a role. But it's we take a deep dive into those inflection points, what the considerations were, what the the

potential positives and negatives of the decision tree was, what we chose, why we chose it, how it worked out, and then layering deal stories on. And the deal stories are cool because as, know, the journey, it seems like I've been doing this five minutes, but it's actually year 41 now. you know, the...

The deals sometimes are very reflective of what was going on in the environment at the time. What was the economy like? What was the circumstances like? Were things going up? Were they going down? And so the deal stories kind of take you on a ride through those ups and downs in the market, the turbulent times, the times when the market was really roaring and everything was great, and the times where we were scratching and clawing.

and doing everything we could to keep the lights on. it was a great...

Bob Knakal (16:09.627)
to stroll down memory lane to think about all these different inflection points and deal stories. the cool thing is that we looked at each of these different time periods, different decisions that were made, broke them down, analyzed them, figured out what really were the key aspects of the decision-making process at that time, looked at the deals that were being done

time and why they were getting done, how they were getting done. And then Rod layers on his perspective on both the decisions that were made. Were they good? Were they bad? Could they have been different? What were the considerations? And then, you know, looking at the deals, deriving takeaways, takeaways for brokers, takeaways for investors. So I think there's a lot of cool stuff in the book that

that folks really can benefit from by taking this journey with us and seeing how we both looked at it from a different perspective. One perspective being I was the broker in the trenches doing this stuff. And then Rod's perspective as a coach who has seen thousands of folks go through all of these things and what his perspective was from his vantage point.

So, and clearly, you know, from the time we've been working together, he had kind of an insider's seat at the table. So I think his perspective, particularly in the post 2011 section of the book, is really, really insightful because he's been right there, right next to me each step of the way through a lot of very turbulent times and a lot of very positive times.

So I think it's really interesting. It was interesting for me to read Rod's perspective on what he was seeing happen at the time he was seeing it.

Drey Campbell (18:17.623)
Yeah. In my past life as a professor, when I would teach students about research, they would do qualitative analysis and what you guys went through, sounds like a qualitative analysis process. So it's kind of curious that you've gotten a good timeline of economic factors by going through your deal flow. So we come to a modern day and economic factors are changing. Once again, technology has been layered onto this new system of commercial real estate sales.

Tayler Tibbitts (18:22.125)
you

Rod Santomassimo (18:27.736)
Mm-hmm.

Drey Campbell (18:46.903)
We're seeing it, we're seeing a different type of broker, a different type of market, well maybe not broker, but a different type of market. So what's the next chapter, right? Like you can look back and be reflective on all these points in history that you've done deals. What is this current chapter in the deals you're doing now telling you about the economy?

Rod Santomassimo (19:06.158)
I'll go first, Bob.

Bob Knakal (19:07.707)
Yeah, well, I think that if you look at the deals that are happening now, clearly they are reflective of what's going on in the broader economy. And that's always the case. But I think, you know, to to go to 40,000 feet with an answer to that question, Dre, I would say that, you know, again, the basic fundamental business has not really changed in the past 41 years. The strategies and the tactics that are used are

constantly changing and we constantly have to look at them figure out whether these are strategies and tactics we want to adopt or not adopt if we do adopt them how do we adopt them and so that's something that

You know, we're constantly going through Rod and I are constantly talking about different tools, different strategies, different tactics. How do we use them? Do we use them? What works? What doesn't work? And that's a constantly evolving and changing process and constantly getting feedback. We see what's working, what's not, and try to focus on the stuff that's working really well. And maybe we we abandon the stuff that's not working well, but that's a process that's

constantly evolving and we're constantly monitoring it and deciding what is working best.

Rod Santomassimo (20:31.138)
And from my perspective, I'm always asking, and this is important to the audience, think about this, you should always be asking what's next. mean, because what's today is today, and that's fine, figure it out, leverage what you can, but what's coming down the pipeline? Bob and I have a little inside joke where my former college roommate was a major golfer and he went to a Tiger Woods camp, and the Tiger Woods would tell his campers, I can feel the wind coming down the fairway before anyone else could.

That's what he said. So Bob and I are always trying to figure out what's coming down the fairway. we're not, none of us are at Spend Time Golfing because we love real estate. But we're always thinking what's coming down the fairway? So right now to your answer to question is, look, we just signed a contract this morning with some developers to help build our agents for our clients. So I see agentic advisory bots

Tayler Tibbitts (21:05.453)
Hmm.

Tayler Tibbitts (21:09.101)
Haha

Rod Santomassimo (21:28.226)
being coworkers to brokers by the end of this year, that they all will be. And by 2026, if you don't have agents working in your bullpen with you for research, for prospecting, for marketing, you will go obsolete. I truly believe that. And I put my neck out and say that. So we're developing heavily in helping our clients implement these agents that are coming now everywhere. look, Bob will tell you.

Bob, we're not in the real estate business. What business are we in?

Bob Knakal (21:59.675)
We're in the information and relationship business.

Rod Santomassimo (22:03.252)
Information is now being replaced with agents. They are, right? Do a deep research on OpenAI. See what you learn. I I will share the quick story. I was trying to get in touch with someone and I could not find them anywhere on the internet, anywhere to get their local phone number or email. I did a deep research on ChatGPT last night. I got their home phone number and I got their direct Gmail account email. And we've already had correspondence this morning about something, Information is now everywhere.

What Bob and top brokers will continue to do is leverage the information, right? And no one does it better than Bob. I haven't found anyone does it better than Bob, but also have the relationships. That's not going to go away. Dre, you're not gonna start focusing just on working with an agent, at least not next year or the year after. But eventually we all will be, but you will always look for a relationship and trust first.

Drey Campbell (22:52.099)
you

Rod Santomassimo (22:58.87)
Whitswain has the information and that's what I think is the key is coming down the pipeline. It's coming down the fairway. That's it.

Drey Campbell (23:04.611)
Yeah, I kind of look at it and I think about it, right? Because like say for instance, yesterday I used chat GPT on 50 % of my tasks to help assist with it, which was great. Like the personal GPTs that I've built for my systems. And then I think that this new generation, like I'm using as a tool and I haven't grown up with it, this new generation of brokers that's going to have it when they graduate college, when they're going through college and coming out. how is that going to...

Bob's exceptional at building relationships, right? Rod, you've been exceptional at building relationships. My generation has had to build relationships. How is this new generation? What is going to be the focus on relational building when they have the ability to get everything with the information as quick as they can?

Rod Santomassimo (23:47.852)
Yeah, I forget I was into a podcast. It was either Peter Diamantes. I want to credit him. But there's gonna be a higher demand for social interaction down the road than ever before. There will be and generations will learn that. Look, after pandemic, every conference was sold out because people want to be with people. So I have faith that we'll continue to be focused on the relationship of the human and not the bot.

I pray at least.

Drey Campbell (24:18.753)
And Bob, you're building a team of younger brokers and you're helping them achieve their goals. And you're at this stage of your career where you want to pay it forward, which you've told me in person. I'm curious, how are you encouraging them to build like authentic relationships while using these fast AI technologies?

Bob Knakal (24:38.671)
Well, you have to do two things. One, you have to get on the phone. The phone has to be your friend. You have to make those calls. And then you have to go meet people. You have to do a ton of networking. There's no replacement for face-to-face interaction with people. It's the best way to build strong relationships, strong bonds, get to know folks. And there's no replacement for that. No technology, no AI can replace it. These AI tools

can definitely help make things more efficient, more effective, streamline things, but at the end of the day, you have to talk to people and you have to meet with people to build those strong relationships.

Rod Santomassimo (25:21.646)
And Dre from the coach side, just like the book. So the secret he said, from a coach side, yeah, and this is what we're doing at BKREA. There are KPIs for the team members to make certain phone calls, but also for the KPIs for the team members to go out and meet people, right? Every week, hitting those numbers, ensuring they're doing it. That's how Bob and his team are ensuring they get out there and they're getting in front of people. KPIs drives everything at BKREA.

Bob Knakal (25:48.387)
Yeah.

Yeah, look, we have what is probably the most analog room in the country, but probably the NACLMAP room has more data about a specific niche of the market than exists anywhere else in the United States, I guarantee it. We have 41 years of very granular data about the land sale and development market in Manhattan, sitting in this room where I am now.

And one of the KPIs for our folks is to get people into this room. Not only are you required to make a certain number of phone call connections per week and connections, not dials. Who cares about dials? It's connections that matter. But everyone has a goal to get at least two property owners into this room every week. Why? Because historically, over the course of my career, and I've given over 10,000 pitches in my career,

I've won 26 % of my pitches. In the NACL map room, we are now 32 for 32 pitching business. I need to get clients into this room. I could have the greatest room in the world. This room can still have the same exact information in it today as tomorrow, but if nobody's coming into the room, it's not effective. So we have to get people into the room. So that's another...

thing, Rod talks about KPIs. One of the KPIs, the key performance indicators for our crew is that you have to get folks in here so that people can experience what we have. And it's that personal relationship. It builds the relationship. It forces the relationship and puts you in a position to win business from folks.

Tayler Tibbitts (27:41.879)
That's awesome. This line of questioning definitely ties into one of the chapters in the book about reputational capital. And so I know we're kind of talking around that point, but do you have one specific recommendation that brokers should be doing but aren't doing to build their reputation in the market?

Rod Santomassimo (27:59.854)
Okay.

Bob Knakal (28:01.071)
Well, I think market presence is the key. I think that doing all those things that I mentioned to create market presence is very, very important. I think it's important what Rod will preach is that, you know, we are all our own individual businesses, our own individual brands. Whether you work at the biggest real estate brokerage shop in the world or the smallest, you are your own personal brand. Be conscious of

that, you know, always do the right thing, treat people with respect, etc. etc. But one of the things that I think is really overlooked is that

The basis of forming a strong relationship with somebody has to do with commonality of interests, especially if that common interest can be outside of real estate. I'm a firm believer that if you took any two people and put them in a room together and they got to know each other, they'll probably find something that they have in common. Maybe they like baking bread or NASCAR or knitting. Who knows what?

what the heck it is, but I bet you that if you put two people in a room and they got to know each other, they'd find something that they liked in common. When you find that thing, that's the basis of building a strong relationship with somebody. I have a client, Arnie Gumowitz, he's been in the business for decades and decades. His office is right across from Madison Square Garden. Big Nick and Ranger fan, I found that out very early.

in our relationship and for the first minute or two, every time I call him, we're talking about the Knicks and the Rangers. And that's the basis of a really nice friendship and nice relationship. And if you can find that with people, that's really, puts you on a good path to develop a really strong bond with someone.

Rod Santomassimo (29:46.637)
You

Rod Santomassimo (30:01.89)
Yeah. And from my perspective, the capital is created in a couple of ways. Number one, even if you're doing social media or physical drips, whatever you're doing, be yourself, be authentic, but speak to your audience. A great example, I see too many brokers talking about being a broker. Their audiences don't care about you being a broker. They care about their apartment or their office building or their lease. Talk to your audience, right? Give them the message, be authentic. But as much as that, what Bob's saying in CoachSpeak,

We tend to talk too much about real estate when we talk to somebody and not about real life. And real estate is a, is a pimple in their life. It is, it may be a big asset, but if you can talk about real life instead, the Knicks, the Jets, well don't talk about the Jets, that's depressing. But if you talk about those things, right, then you create the relationship. So stop focusing so much on the real estate, focus on the real life and you'll see a change in your relationships. You will.

Drey Campbell (31:03.843)
That's good feedback. When you guys are hiring talent, both of you guys are hiring talent, the book kind of talks about culture and fit. What are some of the key, I would say, skills you look for in the people that you're bringing on your teams now?

Rod Santomassimo (31:18.35)
Well, since I'll be taking a go after me, but we are, we just, we're in the process of hiring a chief of staff right now. And we just hired this week for new salespeople. And so one thing, of course, they have to speak to our team and everyone's got to say, this is a good fit. Beco talk about, can you take this person out for a drink? And that got embarrassed, right? We actually passed on one of the best ranked salespeople because he wasn't a good fit for, for Mossimo. He would show a different reflection. But we also,

really at Mossmo we strongly believe in natural behavior assessments. Do they have the natural behaviors to fit the culture where to every one of our new hires, every one of our clients, one on one clients, BK did it, goes to a natural behavior assessment so we know how they fit and how to work with them. And that helps us create longer tenured employees.

Bob Knakal (32:11.307)
And from my perspective, you know, we look for folks that are very, very competitive. This business is a very competitive business. We love folks that have demonstrated excellence in team sports. If you play sports, you're competitive. If you play team sports, you work well with others. And, you know, this is a business that you need to do things on a team basis.

and work together well. those are things that we look at. And then likeability. I think it's a very, very underrated quality is likeability. I think there should be a whole curriculum in college about this. Who really cares whether prepaid rent is a debit or a credit on the balance sheet? Can you be likable? Can you connect with people? you understand persuasion and human behavior and psychology and why people

do what they do and salesmanship and building relationships and speaking in public and things that make you likable. so that is one of the things. think competitiveness and likability are two things that are very high up on our chart.

Drey Campbell (33:31.491)
You're speaking Dale Carnegie language, right? How to win friends and influence people. It's just, teaches you how to be likable right there. Well, as you guys are kind of, you guys have worked together for a lot of years now and you're moving into the kind of the later stages of your relationship. What does the relationship look like for the next 10 years?

Rod Santomassimo (33:35.523)
you

Rod Santomassimo (33:52.27)
I'll go first. I don't think we're at the end of our relationship. I don't. I am thinking about what's next. Look, I'm 61, soon 62. BK is thinking you're older than me. I'm like BK. We've just begun. mean, to dominate our respective markets is we have to continue to innovate. And so there's no slowing down right now. Not my end.

Bob Knakal (33:58.873)
That's exactly what I was gonna say.

Rod Santomassimo (34:24.226)
Okay.

Bob Knakal (34:24.857)
Yeah, Rod, I apologize. just lost connectivity for a second or two. I didn't hear your answer.

Rod Santomassimo (34:31.766)
I said, we're not slowing down, we're just getting started.

Bob Knakal (34:34.297)
Yeah, totally agree with that. Look, this is, you my career has had many chapters in it and just went through nine and a half years of working at the big shops, which is a very different experience. You know, being back on my own again is a, has been a,

kind of a revitalization, a reawakening, a finding your passion again for me. New company BKREA is a little over a year old now and having tremendous fun again.

And as Rod said, I feel in a lot of ways I'm just getting started again. You know, certainly with technology and the advances in technology that we've seen, it's kind of a whole new world. And in New York, we have a lot of new legislative programs that are changing the landscape. So in a lot of ways, it's starting fresh. I just happen to have a 41-year track record behind me, but everyone's kind of

Rod Santomassimo (35:42.03)
Whoops.

Tayler Tibbitts (35:43.725)
We lose Bob there.

Rod Santomassimo (35:44.942)
We'll respond for a second there. So, I'm gonna come back.

Bob Knakal (35:47.281)
starting out on a level playing field and we need to figure out ways to get advantages.

Drey Campbell (35:49.227)
I think I was making the assumption that one day you guys would retire and it doesn't sound like retirement's an option.

Rod Santomassimo (35:53.166)
Bob has said to me that he'll leave with a phone. He'll pass away and there'll be a phone in his hand. He'll be negotiating a deal. That's how he's going to go. And I'll probably be in middle of a coaching session when I go. That's going to be it. So we're probably with Bob.

Drey Campbell (36:08.747)
on the way out.

Drey Campbell (36:14.155)
with Bob. You guys might go to you guys might go together. There's such a thing as broken heart syndrome. When one goes the other might just fall right along.

Rod Santomassimo (36:21.23)
But yeah, go ahead.

Drey Campbell (36:23.383)
Well, it looks like we lost Bob, Rod, and so I think we're okay probably settling up. We've been here for a little while. I appreciate you guys giving us the opportunity to meet with you again. I look forward to seeing the whole book. You're tremendous for the field. You're a tremendous human being. You've given people so much value in their lives. I think when you're at the gates of heaven someday, you're gonna get a big pat on the back. It's wonderful to get to meet you and share this with you today.

Rod Santomassimo (36:50.638)
Well first of all, I appreciate the kind words. Do know what Santo Massimo means?

Drey Campbell (36:56.227)
I don't know if you ever told me.

Rod Santomassimo (36:57.6)
Santo is a saint and Massimo is why we call the company Massimo is a superbative. It means maximum great most. So in theory, my name means the great saint. So when I get to the pearly gates, if I'm not let in, I got a big problem. I really do. But hey, before we go everyone, this is really exciting. Everyone understand we're launching this book on May 20th, May 20th. I think you'll be able to pre-order the book.

Tayler Tibbitts (37:09.933)
Ha ha!

Tayler Tibbitts (37:14.141)
shoot.

Rod Santomassimo (37:23.662)
by May 1st. And we want to sell thousands, off thousands of copies. But what Bob and I are going to do, and I've never done this in my four prior books, we're going to do a launch party in New York. We're inviting everyone who wants to come. Launch party in New York, May 20th. We got the space ready, a huge week, us, give us some space. So we're excited about that. Bob, I'm telling you about our launch party. So we're inviting everyone who wants to come.

Let us know. I'll give the gentleman an email ascent in the show notes. Let us know you want to come to New York. We'd love to have you come to the launch party and we'd love to have you buy multiple copies of the book. We think it's going to change the trajectory of your broker's career. Bob, any parting words?

Bob Knakal (38:06.153)
Yeah, no, I apologize. I had a little connectivity issue, but the book launch party is going to be great. We have a great venue at 2 Penn Plaza, which was newly renovated by Vornado. Fantastic building. It's going to be a lot of fun. We'd love it if you could make it to the party. Book is going to be awesome.

Hope you enjoy it and we look forward to seeing everybody.

Tayler Tibbitts (38:38.925)
Now that's awesome. May's gonna be the month of parties for you guys with the gala at the beginning of the month and then the launch party in the middle.

Rod Santomassimo (38:46.52)
Yes it is.

Tayler Tibbitts (38:48.705)
That's exciting.

Drey Campbell (38:49.187)
Okay, Bob, before we go, speaking about books, what item does Kramer try to return for Jerry in the episode, The Bookstore, claiming that it was barely read?

Bob Knakal (39:02.273)
Is that a tropic of cancer?

Drey Campbell (39:06.689)
I think it was a book about Civil War generals. And Jerry had taken it to the bathroom.

Bob Knakal (39:09.729)
something like that. Well, hold on, hold on. There's several parts of this. The book that went to the bathroom, actually, George was in a Brentano's and had a book on, it wasn't the Civil War, I forget. yeah, it was George when in.

Tayler Tibbitts (39:12.002)
Hahaha

Rod Santomassimo (39:13.102)
I've never seen Bob lose on time!

Bob Knakal (39:35.261)
He got a book brought into the bathroom in Brantano's and had to buy it because of that.

Drey Campbell (39:40.803)
Yeah, I think I get $500 to a charity of my choice.

Rod Santomassimo (39:43.554)
I think you're right, I think you're right!

Bob Knakal (39:44.619)
There you go. There you go. That was great.

Tayler Tibbitts (39:45.111)
Ha ha!

Drey Campbell (39:46.403)
I'll get a $500 to fly my ticket to come to the opening party.

Bob Knakal (39:49.631)
See Trey, you caught me off guard there, very unusual. You gotta give me another one now, yeah? You gotta give me a chance for redemption.

Tayler Tibbitts (39:54.487)
That one.

Drey Campbell (39:59.723)
Okay, you know this one, So what's the fake name that George uses as an alias when he's trying to make himself sound important or official?

Bob Knakal (40:07.361)
Well, he, when they were waiting for the girl Jerry wanted to date, he was going to use the name Art Vandelay.

Drey Campbell (40:17.549)
That's correct. You nailed it. You're correct. See, the only way I can get Bob is if you catch him off guard just a little bit. You gotta put him, you can't get him in the boat.

Tayler Tibbitts (40:17.772)
Hahaha

Rod Santomassimo (40:20.62)
Fandome of mysteries, of course.

Tayler Tibbitts (40:22.497)
Hehehehe

Bob Knakal (40:28.013)
Well, I have to tell you, you when I bought my apartment in New York, we bought in Harry Macklau's conversion at 71st and Park and didn't want anybody to know we were buying it. And so we created an LLC through which to buy the apartment, which is called Art Bandolais Industries LLC. And so the apartment I lived in at 737 Park Avenue was owned by Art Bandolais.

industries LLC.

Tayler Tibbitts (41:00.045)
That's exceptional.

Drey Campbell (41:00.577)
that's great. That is great. Yeah. So, and this is an example of, of meeting someone on relational level. I know you love Seinfeld.

Bob Knakal (41:07.369)
Yep, there you go.

Rod Santomassimo (41:07.47)
There you go. Thank you, gentlemen.

Drey Campbell (41:09.347)
Okay guys, have a good night or a good day. Bye.

Bob Knakal (41:11.777)
All right, guys, take care. Bye, everybody.

Rod Santomassimo (41:11.96)
Take care. Bye bye.

Tayler Tibbitts (41:12.479)
Hey, thank you. We'll see you soon.